This is all wild to me, alarms not required in a building that is largely unoccupied?! Who cares that its purpose is to fight fires? Especially if people aren’t there often it needs an alarm!
And most of your firefighters are volunteers? I can understand having volunteer firefighters in rural areas, but Germany seems like a country where most of the population lives in urban or reasonably dense suburban areas, at least from an American perspective of population density. My midsize town of just under 80,000 people has a population density of around 1100 people per square kilometer and has a professional fire department with about 110 full-time employees working at 6 different stations. It started as a volunteer department a century ago when the town was tiny, but as it grew they eventually switched to a professional force. Our property insurance rates would be very high if it wasn’t professional.
Does Germany not need as many firefighters because many buildings are constructed of materials less susceptible to burning?
This is all wild to me, alarms not required in a building that is largely unoccupied?! Who cares that its purpose is to fight fires? Especially if people aren’t there often it needs an alarm!
Explain such a logical and self explanatory idea to the lawmakers and bureaucrats of 16 different states. If you’re from the US, you will have a quite good understanding of the downsides of federalism yourself.
Typically, automatic alarms are only required in buildings that pose a very significant danger in case of an undetected fire, unfortunately that does not include the indirect danger of not having a fire station anymore after it burns down.
And most of your firefighters are volunteers?
Yes, a legal requirement for having a professional fire department only exists in cities over a certain size. (thanks to federalism and German history, this is a bit location dependent, in the Western states, the magic number is 100000 inhabitants, in the Eastern ones, it’s 50000) Those cities will have a volunteer fire department in addition to the professionals, the way the volunteers are used depends a bit on the city, some will use them as back-up for large incidents, others will use them for specialist roles, while again others will use them for regular coverage outside of normal working hours. (Or any thinkable combination of that) Larger stations in cities under that size limit typically employ a few paid maintenance technicians who will also respond to incidents. (on their own for small things, in combination with the volunteers for larger ones)
Does Germany not need as many firefighters because many buildings are constructed of materials less susceptible to burning?
Germany does have roundabout 1.1 million firefighters in total, the density is pretty high. This is due to the legal requirements of meeting pretty strict response times pretty much in any village, town, and city. The exact times vary a bit from state to state (again our old friend federalism), and some even make a distinction between urban and rural areas, but typically it’s something between 10 and 15 minutes from an emergency being called in (the clock starts ticking the second you dial the emergency number) to the first unit arriving in sufficient strength to do something about it. The measure for sufficient strength, unless there are other dangers, is a “critical dwelling fire” meaning a fire in an inhabited building with person(s) trapped. The absolute minimum to even start dealing with that according to German tactical standards is 6 firefighters. Response time limits for subsequent reinforcements arriving also exist, and requirements for the total strength and equipment of fire department, depending on the hazards present at the municipality in question.
In order to meet that requirement, the preferred way for municipalities smaller than those that require a professional fire department, is having volunteer fire departments, but in case not enough volunteers can be found, they are legally required to conscript able residents for compulsory fire service.
I know there’s a National Fire Code in the US that serves as a minimum standard for every state, but an individual state can make stricter requirements if they want. I’m not sure if the base level is federally mandated or it’s just an agreement among the states to have a baseline that is easier to design to for companies working in multiple states.
I’m pretty sure the basic standard in the US is that most buildings (with few exceptions) should have at least one smoke detector, and usually more depending on the type of building. Normally in residences I think now there is supposed to be at least 1 per level in a single family home along with 1 per bedroom, but there could be fewer in older buildings built to an older standard that maybe weren’t required to upgrade (although highly recommended).
I guess one distinction we haven’t made is having an alarm vs. having a monitored alarm, something that will notify perhaps a private monitoring company, a watchman on site, or directly to an emergency dispatcher. Monitored alarms aren’t legally mandated in nearly as many buildings, but insurance companies may require them in more buildings than code requires. If a commercial building doesn’t have a monitored alarm their insurance rates might be much higher or they might be unable to get any insurance. The owner of a large apartment building might need a monitored system for insurance while someone who owns their own single family home normally doesn’t, but might get a discount on their insurance if they have a monitored alarm.
Does Germany at least require smoke detectors that will alert a building’s occupants, even if the alarm doesn’t send a signal elsewhere?
Does the 1.1 million firefighters number cover just your professionals or also include the trained volunteers/conscripts? Compulsory fire service is an interesting concept. Does that force employers to make concessions that might’ve prevented an individual from otherwise being able to volunteer?
This is all wild to me, alarms not required in a building that is largely unoccupied?! Who cares that its purpose is to fight fires? Especially if people aren’t there often it needs an alarm!
And most of your firefighters are volunteers? I can understand having volunteer firefighters in rural areas, but Germany seems like a country where most of the population lives in urban or reasonably dense suburban areas, at least from an American perspective of population density. My midsize town of just under 80,000 people has a population density of around 1100 people per square kilometer and has a professional fire department with about 110 full-time employees working at 6 different stations. It started as a volunteer department a century ago when the town was tiny, but as it grew they eventually switched to a professional force. Our property insurance rates would be very high if it wasn’t professional.
Does Germany not need as many firefighters because many buildings are constructed of materials less susceptible to burning?
Explain such a logical and self explanatory idea to the lawmakers and bureaucrats of 16 different states. If you’re from the US, you will have a quite good understanding of the downsides of federalism yourself.
Typically, automatic alarms are only required in buildings that pose a very significant danger in case of an undetected fire, unfortunately that does not include the indirect danger of not having a fire station anymore after it burns down.
Yes, a legal requirement for having a professional fire department only exists in cities over a certain size. (thanks to federalism and German history, this is a bit location dependent, in the Western states, the magic number is 100000 inhabitants, in the Eastern ones, it’s 50000) Those cities will have a volunteer fire department in addition to the professionals, the way the volunteers are used depends a bit on the city, some will use them as back-up for large incidents, others will use them for specialist roles, while again others will use them for regular coverage outside of normal working hours. (Or any thinkable combination of that) Larger stations in cities under that size limit typically employ a few paid maintenance technicians who will also respond to incidents. (on their own for small things, in combination with the volunteers for larger ones)
Germany does have roundabout 1.1 million firefighters in total, the density is pretty high. This is due to the legal requirements of meeting pretty strict response times pretty much in any village, town, and city. The exact times vary a bit from state to state (again our old friend federalism), and some even make a distinction between urban and rural areas, but typically it’s something between 10 and 15 minutes from an emergency being called in (the clock starts ticking the second you dial the emergency number) to the first unit arriving in sufficient strength to do something about it. The measure for sufficient strength, unless there are other dangers, is a “critical dwelling fire” meaning a fire in an inhabited building with person(s) trapped. The absolute minimum to even start dealing with that according to German tactical standards is 6 firefighters. Response time limits for subsequent reinforcements arriving also exist, and requirements for the total strength and equipment of fire department, depending on the hazards present at the municipality in question.
In order to meet that requirement, the preferred way for municipalities smaller than those that require a professional fire department, is having volunteer fire departments, but in case not enough volunteers can be found, they are legally required to conscript able residents for compulsory fire service.
I know there’s a National Fire Code in the US that serves as a minimum standard for every state, but an individual state can make stricter requirements if they want. I’m not sure if the base level is federally mandated or it’s just an agreement among the states to have a baseline that is easier to design to for companies working in multiple states.
I’m pretty sure the basic standard in the US is that most buildings (with few exceptions) should have at least one smoke detector, and usually more depending on the type of building. Normally in residences I think now there is supposed to be at least 1 per level in a single family home along with 1 per bedroom, but there could be fewer in older buildings built to an older standard that maybe weren’t required to upgrade (although highly recommended).
I guess one distinction we haven’t made is having an alarm vs. having a monitored alarm, something that will notify perhaps a private monitoring company, a watchman on site, or directly to an emergency dispatcher. Monitored alarms aren’t legally mandated in nearly as many buildings, but insurance companies may require them in more buildings than code requires. If a commercial building doesn’t have a monitored alarm their insurance rates might be much higher or they might be unable to get any insurance. The owner of a large apartment building might need a monitored system for insurance while someone who owns their own single family home normally doesn’t, but might get a discount on their insurance if they have a monitored alarm.
Does Germany at least require smoke detectors that will alert a building’s occupants, even if the alarm doesn’t send a signal elsewhere?
Does the 1.1 million firefighters number cover just your professionals or also include the trained volunteers/conscripts? Compulsory fire service is an interesting concept. Does that force employers to make concessions that might’ve prevented an individual from otherwise being able to volunteer?